TireSmoke.org

I saw this on an Oldsmobile page. It's pretty interesting, and will have you
staying away from Fram filters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTNJLEV ... UAnxP0P-n8

GM

I found this thread from 2004 about oil filters: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... s/330243/1
It's long but interesting. Near the beginning he says this:

Automotive car manufacturers do have specifications for the design of the filter. I think it would be stupid to think that they want any old piece of toilet roll put on their engines.

The primary specifications for spin on filter construction are for burst and collapse pressure minimums. The element needs to be of a minimum "weighted average" efficiency and a minimum dirt holding capacity which equates to filter life. The more dirt holding capacity, the longer the life.

The engine manufacturer also determines the oil filter relief valve or by-pass valve settings. NOT the filter manufacturer. So it is critical when some of you motor heads go trying to find larger or other filters to fit your particular vehicle, you stay with the same valve settings.

Until now, I had never given much thought to matching the engine manufacturer's specs to my filter buying. In fact, I didn't even know about these specs.
Not very long ago, I noticed some lifter noise on cold startup on my TBSS. This pointed to a drain back problem with the oil filter (Fram). On the next oil change I switched back to an AC Delco filter. No more noise.

The local Independent Garage Owners' organization gave a membership to Wheels4Hope, a charity where WXO and I volunteered. A few years ago, I went to a few of their meetings. At one, the speaker was warning against garbage filters which he wouldn't name but I later found out he was talking about Fram. I've avoided Fram filters since.

Good info.

Hmmm. I do not dispute what is in the video or WXO real life experience, but I will say this

1) I have been using Fram filters since I started working on cars.
2) Any part that has rust would have to pass through the filter before going into the engine
3) Is there a factory specification for media? What affect does extra or different media have on flow rate
4) Is anyone really generating that much trash in their engine that more media is needed? I mean the filter only has to last 5000-7500 miles
5) I have done 11000+ miles of endurance road racing with Fram filters without an oil filter related issue
6) By all rights a piece of steel or titanium would be better than wood for bearing loads, but if the wood can carry the load is it not good enough?

I remember way back in the day when I first started hitting the car forums in the early-mid 2000s reading about how Fram filters were junk. But like Andy, I had always used them, and never had any issues either. And I kept using them for a long time -- I just found one in the garage from early 2017 that was on the Chevelle**. It's hard to argue against personal results. (** I've been meaning to cut them open and have a look)

But after seeing the same warnings about how bad Fram filters were, I eventually switched over to AC-Delco. I figured if AC-Delco stuff was good enough for GM, I'd probably be safe. I had seen plenty of people recommending Wix/NAPA Gold filters too (including the pro engine builders that frequent chevelles.com) I can see why now.

To Andy's point #2 -- if you had *any* suspicion that your brand-new oil filter had rust inside of it, would you still put it on your engine?? I don't care if it has to go through the filter media first. That's a bad starting hand.

To Andy's point #4 -- I spun a rod on the way to Carlisle last year. I specifically remember cutting open the filter and finding metal in there. But the filter caught enough junk that my cam and lifters survived to be re-used in the replacement engine. That's the kind of junk it needs to catch, IMO. Also, *we* are the kind of people who do regular maintenance. There are others who won't change oil for 20k miles out of plain ignorance. The filters need to work for them, too.

To Andy's point #5 -- again, hard to argue against personal results. But after seeing the video, would you really want to put another one on there? Not me.

Just to top it off, I just looked up a Fram PH30 & AC Delco PF454 (for small block Chevy) on Autozone.com:
Fram $8.99
AC-Delco $5.99
NAPA Gold $7.49 (napaonline.com)


-Dave

OK it's time to move on from the Fram

TireSmoker wrote: Just to top it off, I just looked up a Fram PH30 & AC Delco PF454 (for small block Chevy) on Autozone.com:
Fram $8.99
AC-Delco $5.99
NAPA Gold $7.49 (napaonline.com)

However, here is another price check from Walmart.com
Fram PH30 3.77
AC Delco PF454 4.97

Autozone not the cheapest. Long term I think their stock should be shorted since their prices are not competitive and quality not that good. Maybe good enough though?

On every daily driver I've had for a LONG time, I use WalMart's SuperTech filter when available or Fram. Again, we change our oil a LOT more than normal people do, so this becomes not such a critical conversation and I don't plan to change what I buy. I also use SuperTech synthetic oil in almost everything. My VW calls out a specific Castrol Oil so I have to use that, but back to filters for a second, I don't believe this conversation applies to cartridge style oil filters like in Dave's Cobalt or my Golf since all parts are plastic. I don't know about you guys, but I always look inside my filters before installing them, and have never seen rust in any of them. To that point, I do sell new old stock hydraulic spin on filters on eBay and have to be careful as some of them do get surface rust just from sitting on the shelf, so I'm sure age and storage climate will affect this rust issue.

I do use an AC Delco filter on the S-10 due to the abuse it gets though, and run Mobil 1 in it also. After 3k miles, the oil is pretty ugly.

-BP