TireSmoke.org

Basement Paul wrote:Limited slip and anything with the word spool in it are very different. Spools will pretty much lock your axles together, which is great for going straight, but bad for everything else. Limited slip will have clutches that slip around turns, but still have friction that will help drive the wheels together under more equal loads.
My Caddy has a 3000 stall when loaded, but under normal driving, doesn't go much above 2200. Drive-ability hasn't really suffered. Compared to a stock type 1500 stall will be quite a difference though.

-BP

BP,

OK, that's clear. I'm thinking Ford limited slip, a la GM PosiTraction. Clarification is helpful -- may have prevented me from buying the wrong thing some day. Still catching up on the new lingo.

The RPMs for your Caddy also help me know what to expect from higher stall converters. I'll have a conversation with my tranny guy about his converters.

Thanks!

GMJohnny wrote:Maverick... when my brothers and I were going to school and unable to afford positraction rear ends, we made a "poor man's posi" by putting air shocks on the car and running an individual line to each shock, so they could be blown up individually. Loading up the right rear to 100 psi and the left rear at 20 psi made the car, even without the posi carrier, come out spinning both wheels. It took some figuring out, but when we went to the track, we could launch heavy cubic inches with minimal wheel spin. We also would put an extended pinion snubber in, so when the car lifted the front end, the snubber would hit the carrier, forcing it down into the track. This not only helped with wheel spin, it also stopped wheel hop. Our cars were well into the 14's with these tricks, and they were cheap. We did ruin a couple of 7.5" GM carriers though, they just weren't up to the abuse we dealt to them.( Lucky for you, the 8.0 Ford is way more stout.)Just food for thought, as if you need more. ( These Tiresmoke guys will have you broke before the Maverick ever hits the road!! ) GM

GM,

The air shock idea is clever! Never thought of that. Unfortunately, the Mav rear shock mounts aren't strong enough for air shocks. Air shocks will rip the cross brace that mounts the shocks out of the body. I'm hoping that 235-60-15s and judicious use of the throttle will launch OK in Phase 1. Seems like some lower tire pressure in the right rear would help too.

Your snubber is an alternative to traction bars, right? I'm getting some ideas for combination lowering blocks/traction bars to control wheel hop under acceleration AND braking. Traction bars I'm seeing, incl CalTraks, appear to be designed for acceleration only. Wheel hop under severe braking was a big problem on my '66 Mustang. Back in the olden days, guys made traction bars from truck tie rods that worked both ways.

Thanks for comments.

Maverick .. Sorry to hear that you cant take advantage of the air shock trick. However, I think traction bars will help a bunch, especially with wheel hop. You need to consult Basement Paul, as he is a Ford man from way back and his Pinto expertise will help you. He was able to launch his Pinto so hard, that the roof was starting to crack where it connected to the driver's side window pillar. He was a poor lad when he raced that junker, but it was fast, and it always hooked up, even with 4 grand hole shots. Keep workin'........ GM

OK, I can post some pictures. Got the first coat of epoxy primer on the body today. Its nice to have some junk tires and wheels. Didn't use my home-made water separator on the first coat of primer. No big deal if it has some minor flaws now. Only saw two little water specks. Will definitely use it on the color coat.

Didn't know it when I bought it, but epoxy primer has to cure for A FEW DAYS or maybe one day in the sun. That'll slow things down a bit. We have some nice weather coming next week so I'll be taking advantage of it.

FWIW the open carrier/air shock/pinon snubber outfit was good for 13.22 in my 78 Lemans. That car had coil springs so it was hard to find traction bars, and the snubber was cheap. I never did buy a posi for it and the body rusted out before I could get to the 12's.

I still use the snubber today in my TA with the air shocks and posi. Say what you will but I want even weight transfer.

The snubber is nice as it has a "stealth" aspect to it - everyone can see those slapper bars.

MostMint wrote:FWIW the open carrier/air shock/pinon snubber outfit was good for 13.22 in my 78 Lemans. That car had coil springs so it was hard to find traction bars, and the snubber was cheap. I never did buy a posi for it and the body rusted out before I could get to the 12's.

I still use the snubber today in my TA with the air shocks and posi. Say what you will but I want even weight transfer.

The snubber is nice as it has a "stealth" aspect to it - everyone can see those slapper bars.

OK, more education if you will. I'm guessing that a pinion snubber is a rubber bumper that prevents the axle from wrapping up. Also guess you'd mount it with about the same clearance as the axle bumpers. That way with rear springs fully compressed, the axle couldn't wrap up under acceleration. How am I doin'? No help during braking, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by "even weight transfer". Care to elaborate?

the GM cars have a rubber stop in the center of the rear end directly above the front of the pumpkin. To make it work for racing you need to move it down closer to the housing. I place mine so I can just fit my finger between the housing and the snubber (less than 1").

You are correct the snubber keeps the rear end from wrapping up causing wheel hop. It will not help with braking AFAIK

When you launch the car, the torque coming through the driveshaft tends to lift the right side of the rearend and plant the left side. This is why all open rearends spin the right rear tire. To offset this I put more air in the right airshock so when the car launches it transfers more weight to that side to offset the lift coming from the driveshaft.

Taking this one step further I reason that applying equal downforce to each side will get you better traction than unequal. In theory you could have enough rotational torque to reduce the weight on the right rear to 0. Even if you had a locker and both wheels were spinning you would be launching on just one tire. This would be way more prone to spin than if both tires were on the ground.

Now I know the right rear is not coming off the ground, but lets say the downforce is 20% light on the RR vs the LR. Would this not affect the traction? Well maybe not but it would if your torque was close to being enough to overpower the tires.

Obviously this is not relevant if you have enough grip to get no spin on the launch.

Got it. Thanks.

On my Pinto, the limited slip didn't work that well eventually, so I set the driver's side traction bar right against the spring and the passenger's side was about 1/2" lower so the RH side would load up harder. I've had snubbers before and IMO, they ride too hard when you hit a big bump. Traction bars give a little more and I think they actually look cool, especially on a vintage piece like the Maverick.
I used regular old $40 Lakewood universal traction bars, and made my own shims to set them up wherever I wanted. I also used these same ones on my S-10. They're a little short for the S-10, and eventually I'll buy the right ones (about $100), but they keep the wheel hop away, and help it hook up on the street.

-BP

For two weeks i've been messing with my paint gun because, after spaying primer, it was not putting out the color coat. FINALLY figured it out and should now be on my way. Here's the first good coat of color on the hood. Paint flows out nicely with minimal orange peel which will be fixed with color sanding and buffing.



Paint is NASON urethane, same as we used on the Beetle.

WXO stopped over yesterday to check out the first good color coat on the body and take some pictures. I'm hooking up the SCUBA regulator to my fresh air supply (SCUBA tank in the corner, rotating boom) to demo it for him. The plastic sheets is to keep the dust out of the paint. Worked quite well. Swept the floor twice with sweeping compound and sprinkled a fresh coat and left it in place while I sprayed. Have some "nibs" to color sand but probably 2% of what we had in the VW that we painted in the shed last year.



The epoxy primer I was concerned about actually wet sands just fine after one day at 70 degrees. That white engine compartment will need some careful maintenance to keep it looking good.



The color was gone from my dash pad. Restored it with vinyl paint mixed by Doug the counter guy at my favorite paint store.



Paint on the dash was shot and some surface rust had to be cleaned up. Shot it with the same vinyl paint. Doug got a good match. Compare the new paint on the dash to the color that's been under the dash pad.

Very impressive. It's always more fun when the sanding is done.

My rebuilt transmission

C4 Transmissions:

500 Horsepower Street/Strip
A quality rebuilt unit with several upgrades including weld reinforced forward drum, 5 clutch direct drum, carbon/Kevlar lined front and rear bands, oiling system modifications, performance shift improvers, red lined clutches and modified forward planet with roller bearing.

and torque converter arrived at the shipping terminal yesterday. WXO and I retrieved it this morning.






[/url]

I've decided to delay installing it till the body is reassembled. Gotta keep going on the paint while the weather is acceptable.

Yo, Mav-
Hows about an update.
I saw this, and you immediately came to mind...

http://blog.cardomain.com/2010/03/16/ca ... k-grabber/

Hey Mark,

Great writeup. Thanks for sending it. If we Mav guys aren't careful we might get to be respectable!! To prevent the Mavs from eating Mustang sales Ford didn't put things like 4V carbs, trac-loc and dual exhaust on the Mavs but its not hard to add them and have Mustangs for lunch.

Progress on the Sprint has been SLOOOOOOW thru the winter. Now that the weather is agreeable progress should be better. Body work is ALL DONE. Since the last post, I've repaired some pin holes in the doors and fenders, straightened out a dent one fender, and got primer and a coat or two of white on those pieces. Hope to put a second coat of white on the fenders tomorrow. Next step will be the blue all around the bottom of the body. Then mount the doors (with help from WXO) and fenders and do the blue around the bottoms of them.

Engine and trans are together and ready to go in. Have sound/heat insulation for for the interior and new carpet ready to go in. After market 3/4" rear sway is installed -- Mavs didn't have one originally. Need to upgrade the front sway bar from 3/4" to either 7/8" or 1", not sure which yet. I keep resisting ordering parts to rebuild the front end. I'm sure I'll have to do that, incl power steering slave, and it would be lots easier with the engine out and fenders and hood off. But, its EXPENSIVE!!

Final coat of white will go on after the engine/tranny are in and doors, fenders and hood are in place. Then the blue on the cowl, blue hood decal, and red pinstripes around the lower body and on the cowl.

Haven't thought much about AC yet but I'm sure I'll need lots of new stuff there. And, I know I'll need traction bars of some kind. More $$$$. Gotta keep a hobby-level rate of spending.