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I think the guy talking about the Saturn engine problems was talking about the "quad 4" motors that made it into the L-series sedans. There were lots of complaints about this motor failing around 60-80k miles.

-BP

So now I have this idea of upgrading to a 3.1 V6 in the Saturn. Just switch in the whole cradle from a Beretta or similar GM product. Moving from 124 HP to 155 HP in a 2100 lb car should be noticeable.

I think the 3.1 would be a mistake. I think the Saturn motor is more reliable, plus you'd be adding a bunch of weight to it also. The platforms are not the same either. Saturn is it's own beast, and not interchangable with other GM stuff, not without some serious fab work.

How about a small turbo for the Saturn. Another 10psi with a good intercooler wouldn't cause much damage and would yield another 30-40hp easy.

-BP

I'm of the opinion that a 3.1 would be a mistake for this car too. It would add significant weight exactly where we don't need it, and my gut tells me that Paul is right about it requiring some beyond-our-skill-level fabrication to make it happen. I've seen plenty of Saturn engine cradles for sale on criagslist, and there never seems to be a mention of using something from another GM chassis.

I like the turbo idea, but I guess I'd have some doubts about it in terms of reliability for a 24 hour race. Tuning that old '92 computer to handle the boost tuning could involve a significant learning curve and equipment investment for burning chips, as I'm 99.9% sure its not flashable like the newer stuff. Megasquirt is a possible alternative, however.

The best thing we can do to improve our finishing position is to just work on the reliability of what we have. It's not sexy and exciting like an engine swap/turbo, but it would make a dramatic difference.

Too bad you couldn't get a sitter last night, we could've bench raced for a few hours playing poker. I made the final table, but went out 9th from a starting group of 24.

-Dave

You guys are party poopers. This is a 25% increase in HP. This baby will rock! Performance mods like CAI and free flowing exhaust will be worth more if the base HP is higher. If they can get the Cougar around the track in 1:20 with we should be able to do the same. Adding weight to the front will not increase the oversteer.

If I decide to pursue this further I'll have a solid plan how to do it, the expected cost and a list of benefits you won't be able to ignore.

If you guys are trying for more horespower, why not look into ways to make the motor you
have produce more. Dave likes what's there, Andy wants more power... combine the two.
Back in the day, we'd take motors we had and MAKE them go faster. Cylinder head work, cam
shaft, etc .... I'm sure that somewhere out there there's someone who tried to hot rod that
engine. I did a stint where I tried to hop up a 307 Oldsmobile. I did a bunch of the stuff that
I found on a site, and the car went from 17.1 in the quarter to 15.2's. That was one of the
worst motors horsepower-wise Oldsmobile ever made, but I was able to help it a ton. I'm certain
that some elbow grease and relatively cheap "pick-a-part style" parts could help with the problem.
I'd do some r & d before scrapping the current power plant. Just an opinion........ take it for what
it's worth.

GM

I should have added that the Chump Car rules say the engine has to be 100% stock, but it allows engine swaps! I think the idea is to make it easy to value the car and cut down on expensive work. However I believe an engine/cradle swap will be more time consuming and expensive than working on the current engine.

I guess I'm wondering about 100% stock. If you port a stock head, it's still a stock head,
there's just a little bit less of it than there was when you started. The same with the intake.
It does rule out cam swap, but there might be a rocker arm that is stock but gives more lift.
You have to think like Junior Johnson would. Unfortunately, the motor is not a big block &
will be tough to make generate 300 hp! I also wonder if the car would ever be torn down for
inspection. Will you ever be so good that they will wonder why?

GM

Was back down to the charity garage that WXO and I used to volunteer for. That's where I heard the talk about the Saturn oil ring issue. Yes, the comment applies to 1.9L engines for certain years, like late 80s thru mid-90s.

They have a 1.9L engine out of a Saturn there that had the problem. I saw the stuck oil rings. The engine is available free if you guys want it and can get it transported. BTW, WXO and I talked about possibly renting a space at the Spring Carlisle. If we do that, we'd have a bunch of stuff to haul up there.

Is that a DOHC engine?

Yes, DOHC.

If you want it let me know. Don't think they'll have it around there very long. Right now its inside.

We oughta at least get the head.

-Dave

Can you get it to Carlisle? We will pick it up from there.

If you want it, I'll get it and store it in my shed. WXO and I are talking about Spring Carlisle but we don't have a plan yet. Worst case, if we can't get it to you I'll scrap it.