2012 Chevelle Projects

[Maverick]

With an oil pressure issue, for sure I'd take the crank to a machine shop and have it checked (rechecked?). Might need some undersized bearings.

[Fred32v]

Looking at the pictures, I don’t think those bearing look bad. Babbitt is supposed to absorb debris.
I think the pressure relief spring in the oil pump is too soft; I’d install a high pressure spring or replace
the pump and put the motor back together. I thing I might have try a different pump in the beginning.
I wouldn’t be so ready to think that bearing clearances were causing the loss of oil pressure on a new motor.
Checking things now will be going over things you checked before assembly, I bet things haven't changed.
Just sayin’

[Maverick]

Less than 5 PSI at idle is really scary. Could the relief spring (is there a ball as well?) have been left out? Its happened before.

Thought maybe the wear pattern should be more uniform on the bearings. That made me suspect a loose fit. But, I've never seen bearings with so little run time on them.

[TireSmoker]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XXcn2ztzyk[/youtube]

[TireSmoker]

The reason I went all-in and checked the bearings, is that because that's what happened last time (late summer 2010) when I lost oil pressure. Junk went through the bearings (and the damage was everywhere and obvious) So I was kinda paranoid. And since I'm getting really tired of doing the hokey-pokey, I wanted to be thorough. I do have a new pump I can put in there. I think I'll throw the new pump in, put the pan on, and prime it on the stand and see what the pressure looks like.

-Dave

[TireSmoker]

Thought I would post an update. I've gotten everything apart and, for better or worse, I don't see anything wrong. I took my oil pressure gauge over to Fatica's and we compared it to the gauge in his car. Mine read 10psi lower than his. (his read 58, mine 48, at a cold idle.) Hmm.. Does that mean I had 15psi of oil pressure at warm idle instead of 5? That still seems low, but I'm not sure I would've torn it down at 15. 5 was worth the look. My gauge is a SunPro that I picked up from Autozone a couple years back for priming on the stand. Used very little. But I still think the pressure at idle was unusually low. I took apart the oil pump and inspected it. I replaced the regular spring with a higher-pressure spring and moved the bypass relief valve up and down,so it's moving as it should. It's possible it got hung open, explaining my low pressure at idle.

I also haven't seen anything to explain why the top-end was dryer than it should be. But at this point, everything looks good and I'm putting it back together.

-Dave

[MostMint]

Last call for plastigage...

[TireSmoker]

I swear, I'd almost rather have no luck than all the bad luck I've had with this thing. I decided to change the oil pump and put it all back together after finding nothing wrong. Everything seems to measure out ok. So I go to put it back in the car and discovered the driver's side motor mount is bad. No big deal, they're cheap ($5 each!) and easy to replace with the engine out. But cheap cuts both ways and these mount didn't appear to have an interlocking design, in case the rubber fails. Internet searchin' got the best of me, and I read a lot of posts on chevelles.com where guys would run a solid mount on the driver's side to control engine movement, but a rubber one on the passenger side to still absorb some vibration. It seemed like a good idea, so I ordered up some Moroso solid mounts.

I go to put the engine back in the car, *again*, and once in there, I can't get the mounts to line up on both sides. I can get one in, but not the other. I tried loosening all the bolts holding the mounts on to the block, hoping that all the tolerances had just stacked up enough to not allow the final mount bolt to line up. No go. I retreated and put rubber mounts on both sides, and got everything to line up. Yay, engine back in the car.

With all that wrestling done, it was finally time to start putting all the accessories on. Slipped the passenger side header into place, which was surprisingly easy. Then I went to put the starter in and the fun started, again. The bolts won't tighten. They definitely start, but will not tighten. I just had this thing bolted in there a couple weeks ago!! Some piece of cast iron broke off up there, because I threaded it off the bolt after it came back out.

This is really close to being the final straw for me on this thing. I realize it's just a couple starter bolts, but this is after the low oil pressure, after the junked bottom end, after the blown head gasket, after the frozen block.. this is stretching back to 2006. I made about 12 drag strip passes in April-June 2008, and that's it. I'm trying to evaluate what I really have with this car anymore. It needs a bunch of body work, the interior has gotten kinda crappy, I have a very questionable engine, despite being just built. I have solid front and rear suspension, and a good trans. This car has barely been driven since Tiresmoke went online. And it's not for lack of trying.

Just very, very frustrated with this thing. Wrench-turning to wheel-turning ratio is definitely backwards. I don't need a perfectly restored Chevelle, I just want my old hot-rod/bracket racer/science-project drivable and race ready again.

-Dave

[Maverick]

Looks like January was a frustrating month for at least a couple of projects. Lets hope things go better in the Spring months.

[MostMint]

There are a few topics to address here:
1) old cars need work
2) I've had this car a long time
3) starter bolts don't go in

1) Old cars need work
A 1970 Chevelle is 43 years old. Components deteriorate over time. Even keeping it in the garage it is difficult to keep things tip-top. You witness this by the broken motor mount, interior wearing out and the rust on the quarter panels, to say nothing about other components such as body mounts, window seals, wiring, switches. I'm not sure how much time should be spent upgrading these things, but I know if you let them go they get old and when they start failing one after another it can get really frustrating.

So this can be addressed by doing a full restore (which means the car will be sitting for quite a while) either by you or someone else (this is a time vs money trade off). As you learned with the Vette, if a restoration is not all the parts then the things that are not done are still going to require work.

Now if you like working on cars then you just need to block time off and get it done. Make a list of issues and work on them one at a time. How much you like to work on cars will dictate how much time you put in per week.

2) I've had this car a long time.
I know when I get a new project there is a lot of enthusiasm to get work done. It is new and novel and interesting. Over time that enthusiasm fades though and all that is left is the work. At that time I have to decide if I want to keep going or sell it. There is another factor here in human psychology. As the problems stack up that is what we tend to remember not the successes. This is a serious buzz kill which makes working on the car that much harder.

Also, when you got this car (20+ years ago right?) it was in a different category of car, and you were in a different category of life. Now you need to accept where it is now and where you are now and decide how to proceed.

3) Starter bolts don't go in
I am having a hard time understanding what you describe here.
Do both bolts have the same problem?
What is the thread size (3/8 - 16, 3/8 - 24, ?) of the hole and the bolts?
Have you run a tap into the holes?
Was it this exact starter and these exact bolts that were attached to the engine before it came out?
How far in will these bolts "start"?

It seems to me that either the old bolts broke off somehow, or some metal shards got in there when the block was inverted, you don't have the exact same bolts that came out, or (long shot) threads are stripped and you need a helicoil. In any case you need a good understanding of what is in the way. With the little info I have I would next put a small screwdriver in the holes to see how much depth there is. If there is enough for the bolt to go all the way in then I would run a tap down the hole to clean up the threads (after I was dead sure the threads that the hole is supposed to be).

When I get frustrated on crap like this I go do something else for a few days then I can come back with a clear head and take care of it.

[TireSmoker]

I totally get what you're saying about old cars needing work. I hadn't really thought of the word "restoration", but you're right, it really needs quite a variety of things. I have been coming to that realization the past year or so. On the other hand, I don't think anyone would ever describe it as a basket-case, either. I suppose I really need to come up with a detailed list of what needs to be done, assess the best way to do it (myself, or pay). What I really need to decide is: how much money am I willing to invest in a restoration? This also ties in with my delay in getting a new garage built, as I'm less enthusiastic about working in a crowded garage. I'm hoping that with more room, it might make the work a little more enjoyable.

But to the point of the enthusiasm waning over time -- my enthusiasm has waned with the string of failures recently. But when the car is on the road, I still love it. I still love the way it looks and the way it drives. I enjoyed the stint in late '10 and '11 when I had Tony's motor in the car, especially with the EFI. I've had a lot of successes with it over the years, really. Rear-end was done once, has never been an issue since, and always hooks up both wheels. Rebuilt my first engine in '92 and ran it hard till a rod broke in '99. I ran nitrous successfully. The new engine in '01 was strong and reliable (before it froze) The front suspension, disc brake conversion, and front sway-bar was a total success. The EFI, despite some glitches, was a success. I went my quickest ever with it. I'm reasonably confident the 700r4 conversion will be a success. It is helpful to to recount some of those, though.

As for the starter bolts, a picture will help greatly, but I haven't gotten to it because, like you, I've walked away from it for a few days. The quick version is I may have gotten lucky the first time. These are new starter bolts, there were two sizes (lengths) listed, and I went with the shorter ones. I might just not be engaging enough threads with the shorter bolt. But for sure, something broke up in there, maybe a bit of cast iron where the threads are cut, because the threads would start and support the weight of the starter, but they wouldn't tighten, as is they were stripped. When I took the bolts back out, there was this little bit of thread from the block that I had to unscrew from the bolt's threads. I can't describe it any better than that, I'll get a picture of it.

These are the exact bolts and exact starter that I used to first fire it up, take it for the exhaust work, etc. However, that was the first time those bolts were used with that starter. Like I mentioned there were two different bolt lengths mentioned. I measured the starter, added what seemed like an appropriate amount for thread engagement, and came up with the shorter length. Where I might've made a mistake, is that that starter bolts holes in the block dont have threads all the way to the surface. There is an opened up area where the knurling on the starter bolt is supposed to help align the starter. That's what I read, at least. The longer bolts are 3/4" longer. I ordered them from Summit, they are waiting in the garage for a little enthusiasm. If they don't resolve the issue, my guess is that I should just pull it back out to repair the thread issue since I'm only 4 bellhousing bolts into the installation.

-Dave

[MostMint]

Best thing to do is let it set for a while then get back to it with a clear mindset.

I'll see the pics then. I do agree pulling it back out is the way to go since you are not that far into it yet.

[GMJohnny]

Smoker .... What I've found ( & I'm sure this is already posted somewhere in the Tiresmoke forum ) is that turnkey is best. I've been where you are with an old car. Over time, I lose enthusiasm for a car that every time I take it out of the garage needs some type of work. It takes all the fun out of it. If I had a vote on what you should do with the Chevelle, I would fix it up enough to make it sellable, sell it and all of the stuff that you have that go with it, and move on to newer horizons. It's always hard for me to get motivation for a project that most of the time I get no rewards from. Constantly running into hurdles takes the wind out of my sails and soon I have zero motivation to work on the project. I think you'll get decent money for the car because it is what it is and you can just purchase something that you can drive, clean up, make faster and most importantly, enjoy. Looking for a new ride is very enjoyable. Finding multiple potential purchase vehicles is exciting. Actually buying a "new" car is really exciting, and once you've purchased it you can't wait to go work on it & make it your own... This feeling usually lasts for years if you've purchased the right car. My feeling is that you haven't had any of those feelings in a long time with the Chevelle.... time to change.. ( Of course this is just my opinion, and I'm one who has very little sentiment for vehicles or possessions ) .... I don't know how to put subliminal messages on the tiresmoke forum (z06), but, in your (z06) shoes, I think that i'd maybe (z06) look for a really cool (z06) 2 seater that is really fast (z06) and gets sweet mileage ( http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/3551261100.html ) and is a joy to have.... Good Luck!!

GM

[Maverick]

Agree with GM's analysis. I got bored with the '66 Mustang convert after about 10 years. Also not all that fired up about working on the Maverick anymore. F100 is fun now.

If you build that garage big enough you could part with the Chevelle when you're ready or get reinvigorated on it someday.

If you get to Findlay, check out the Main St Bistro. Wife and I like to overnight at Findlay on our way to/from Michigan and enjoy a pleasant meal there.

[ttamrettus]

a Z06 would look great next to your Dad's car.