Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Update your progress on your various car projects.

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TireSmoker
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Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

TireSmoker wrote: But, on Saturday I embarked on a most noble journey to Parsons Hi-Performance in Dayton, OH after a couple phone calls with Bruce Parsons. This is the guy that put Tony's 383 together. I took my Edelbrock E-Tec 200 heads and other misc parts down to Bruce and put down a deposit to put together an all-forged, roller, 406 housed in a Dart SHP block. I took him a couple of my EFI intakes, and he will actually dyno it on EFI when it's together. Delivery is not expected until some time in the spring, so more details will be in the 2021 thread, but it should be pretty strong!!

-Dave
Well, after plenty of supply chain issues, I finally picked up my motor yesterday! The dyno numbers that I got weren't very impressive (to me) on the surface, but I have to keep in mind I built this thing for boost. Compared to my zz383, rated at 425hp/450tq by GM, this 400 has more cubes, similar compression, way more cam (230/236 .582/.564), and better heads. But it only made 438hp/470tq -- however at 10psi, which was my target, that's a more impressive 748hp!! It'll be interesting to see how it acts N/A.

There's a bit more reengineering work than I first imagined. First was the oil dipstick. The one from my ZZ383 won't work. Long story short, Lokar makes something specific for the SHP block. In stock and ordered it tonight. Next up, my centerbolt valve covers do not fit because the baffle is too wide due to the width of these particular rockers. I kinda wanna keep these Chevrolet valve covers anyway, because they look cool. That means I need to find some other way to mount my coils, because my current bracket mounts via the centerbolt's holes.. I have some universal brackets that hold 4 coils each. I'd have to make new plug wires, but I think I have all the stuff to do it. If I can find someone who does cad/cam, I bet I could modify the design of these coil brackets to mount via the perimeter valve bolts. Or I hack the baffle out of the center bolt valve covers.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by wxo »

I couldn't believe it when I saw the second photo. Did you lift that engine by the fuel rails? :shock:
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

Yep, we sure did. The rails are pretty substantial, but they only attach via (4) 1/4-20 bolts. But the weight load is perpendicular to the threads, so is it that bad? Genuinely curious about that. That was at the machine shop, and he had no reservations about it. Using a strap like that (it's just an axle tie-down strap for a trailer) is nice and easy and won't scratch anything up. I'd be real leary doing that with engine+trans together.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by wxo »

Seems an unsafe bet to me. I'm glad those little 1/4-20 bolts held and your engine was moved successfully.
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by Maverick »

I looked around the Internet for pull out strength for bolts. Didn't find a nice easy table but did learn a couple of general things. If a bolt is in more than 3-4 threads, the bolt will break before the threads give out. And, the tensile strength of 1/4" inch bolt is 1000+ lbs. The specifics depend, of course, on grade of bolt, fine vs course thread, and material the bolt is threaded into.

These number would be for static loads and don't account for jouncing while lifting.

I'd want the safety margin of some larger bolts, but that's just me. I was nervous about the 4 5/16 carb mounting bolts in the aluminum manifold when lifting the heavy 460 but no problems.
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

Maverick wrote:I looked around the Internet for pull out strength for bolts. Didn't find a nice easy table but did learn a couple of general things. If a bolt is in more than 3-4 threads, the bolt will break before the threads give out. And, the tensile strength of 1/4" inch bolt is 1000+ lbs. The specifics depend, of course, on grade of bolt, fine vs course thread, and material the bolt is threaded into.

These number would be for static loads and don't account for jouncing while lifting.

I'd want the safety margin of some larger bolts, but that's just me. I was nervous about the 4 5/16 carb mounting bolts in the aluminum manifold when lifting the heavy 460 but no problems.
I dunno, I'm starting to think its just fine.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by MostMint »

I forget what you were planning to put behind it to handle that kind of boosted HP. Can't see a 12 bolt handling it for long
[quote="Basement Paul"]Is that a mint rocketship on the hood?? :shock:
-BP[/quote]
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

I dont have any concerns about the 12-bolt. It has Moser axles and was just got new gears & posi in 2019, but I do have concerns (once boosted) about your old 700R4. I'll probably just revert to a th350 or th400.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

I had to shorten the Lokar dipstick tube so that it would read correctly. Out of the box, it read about 2/3 quart low. After removing 3/4" from the tube, its about perfect.

(maxwell smart) -- missed by it *that* much..

That's the baffle from Tony's centerbolt valve cover that makes it not fit. My zz383 has bascially same valve cover baffle, but not removable. I can't mount my coils on those pretty Chevrolet valve covers. Not until I relocate the coils, a project for another day.

Having the dipstick issue resolved and having a plan for valve covers/coils, I'm gonna drop it in the car tonight or tomorrow.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

Last week on Thursday, Tony stopped over and we were able to get the engine set into place. No work would get done over the weekend, as Paul, Tony, and I took a trip to Indianapolis to watch the Indycar and NASCAR races (thanks Roger!), but after getting home, I've been picking at it each night.

The first headache was the dipstick. Lokar makes a specific piece for a Dart SHP block, but when I installed it, it showed about 2/3 quart low. I had read about other people need to shortern it, so that's what I did. The dipstick tube is basically just some AN line. After some measuring, I took 3/4" off the tube and it now reads right.

The next headache was the valve covers. The stock covers I've been using on the 383 have a baffle that just barely wouldnt clear the rocker trunions. But I need centerbolt-style valve covers for my COP mounts. I could use my Chevrolet perimeter bolt covers and mount the coils elsewhere, but thats more work making new plug wires and potentially modifying my EFI harness. Not the end of the world, but a decent amount of work. I tried Tony's valve covers, as his baffles are removable. I still need to find a breather that will fit, but this will be good enough for startup.

I had to order header gaskets, as the only ones I had in stock are for D-shaped ports and these are square-ish. As of now, thats about the only thing keeping me from firing it. They were supposed to be here yesterday, but by the time I would've had them in, it was probably too late to fire it. Getting real close now...

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

IT RUNS! I have a short clip on my phone, but I'll post something more substantial later this weekend. The good news is started up the very first try without any difficulty. Im getting better at this EFI stuff...

Still have some details to work out before it's road worthy:

Oil dipstick needs secured
Starter seems to be hitting passenger side header
Exhaust pipes not lining up with headers (they're close)
Find a breather or some sort of plug for valve cover hole (that will fit between coils) or just find an extension tube.
Misc interior pieces to put back together after ignition switch replacement


-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

Swapped my starter for my other one and now the exhaust lines up, although it's still *really* close. But it's workable. Two items crossed off the list.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

So I got the other stuff done and I've made a couple successful test drives now and have it starting/running pretty well overall! On one of the very first drives, I went to get gas at Sunoco. A couple of guys were really admiring it and taking some pics. When I pulled out to head home, I go up Caves and it's just stuttering at like 1300 rpm.. totally embarrassing. It turned out to just be the crank sensor wasn't clicked fully into place, fortunately.

I keep smelling coolant, and steam is getting on the windshield. Probably the heater core. I know I've done that job at least once, and I think twice. For now, I'm going to un-plumb it. The exhaust rattles something terrible, I need to get under there and look at that.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

So I had this big long post written up and somehow lost it..

So on the Sunoco trip, I didn't shut the car off because the alternator wasn't charging. Was it because my 20yr old alternator finally bit the dust, or that the back charging post was wiggly loose and I was unable to tighten it? Either way, time for a new alternator. From a HotRod/CarCraft tech article back in the day, an alternator for an '88 Olds Firenza with EFI/AC would get you a CS130 alternator with the correct 'center-offset' bolt holes and 105amps. You need to swap the serpentine pulley for my v-belt pullet, but otherwise a bolt-on upgrade.

Summit sells Powermaster CS130 center-offset alternators with a v-belt pulley already installed. Perfect.. Except the distance between the bolt holes is different and my rear support brace doesn't fit. Luckily, I was able to hack it together using one of those fancy turnbuckle things that most people use to tighten their belt. I also re-did the wiring, running a sense wire over to the horn-relay buss bar (main power distribution point), and wiring the dash GEN light directly, instead of the work-around leftover from the original upgrade 20yrs ago. Running that sense wire over to the main distribution point really improves things a bit. The alternator works to maintain 14 volts as measured there, instead of just at its output point. In my datalogs from last year, BattVoltage was seen from 12.8-13.2. I'm now seeing 13.5-13.9v.
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As mentioned, the heater core started leaking, so I just removed the hoses for now. I didn't find any on the carpet fortunately, but I could definitely smell it. Parts are on order -- new heater core, blower motor, heater box gaskets, but that will wait a little bit.

I bought another set of valve covers, with removable baffles and only one hole per side. I'll try to come up with something a bit more permanent and give Tony back his valve covers.
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I've got a good tune in the car -- it starts immediately cold or hot, and I've done a bit of auto-tuning with it too. I'm taking it out to TRP tonight to see what it will do. Not the best air, and I'm trying to temper my expectations as this thing is cammed for a turbo, not NA.

-Dave
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Re: Chevelle Upgrades, 2021

Post by TireSmoker »

So as mentioned in the Thompson thread, I took the car out and ran 12.15 @ 111, its best ever, but kinda short of where I thought it would be even cammed the way it is. In looking at the datalogs, the lean spots in third gear almost look like a fuel delivery issue because the pulsewidths are remaining relatively constant. I'm going to make sure there is closer to 1/2 tank of fuel in the tank this coming Wed to eliminate that possibility.

I bought another pair of valve covers. The baffles are both narrower and shorter, so I'm pretty confident they will clear just fine with the baffles installed (the baffle on the side for the PCV, most importantly). Not sure when I'm gonna get them installed.

-Dave
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