1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

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Maverick
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Hi Torque Starter and Finding TDC

Post by Maverick »

New hi torque starter came Thursday.

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This starter can be clocked to any position. Loosen the two Allen screws, rotate the body, and tighten the screws back down with Locktight Blue.

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The clocking feature was handy because, as delivered, the starter was about 3/8" from the header and about 1/2" from the engine block. Rotated it closer to the block and doubled the distance to the header.

Took it for a ride to heat the engine and, CRAP, still some kick back although this starter powers thru it better.

MUST be a timing issue. Instructions for the new starter calls for a minimum 9.6V at the starter when cranking. Its getting 10.2V so voltage is fine. Harmonic balancer slipped? Timing pointer not positioned correctly?

Pulled out the TDC checker. Its a collar that screws into the spark plug hole and a screw (on the right) that goes in to contact the piston near the top. Idea is you turn the engine in one direction till the screw contacts the piston and mark the harmonic balancer position. Turn the engine the opposite direction till contact is made again and mark the harmonic balancer. TDC is midway between the two marks.

The screw it came with got bent while checking the 347 in the Maverick. A 3/8 X 3" Grade 5 bolt from the hardware store makes a better replacement.

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There's so much leverage on the screw with the piston near TDC, and a new engine is so stiff, even with all the plugs out, its hard to not put too much pressure on the screw. With the 3" bolt, the head sticks out where contact can be felt on the bolt while rotating the crank. And, the Grade 5 bolt will bend easier if contact is too hard.

TDC check showed the timing pointer is 2 degrees after TDC. So, the marks on the balancer will cause timing to be set 2 degrees more advanced than indicated. So, 14 degrees initial timing indicated is really 16 degrees BTDC. Kickback there isn't surprising. But I wouldn't expect a problem at 12 degrees (10 indicated) where its set now. I'll run a couple of tanks of 92 octane thru it at that setting and see how it goes.

The old starter goes in the trunk with the other spare parts.
Maverick
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Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

Pulled the timing back to 10 degrees (8 indicated) to see if the kick back can be eliminated. Wife and I went to COSTCO today to stock up on some things and fill the Lincoln with 93 octane. UH, UH, UH, VROOM!! when we left the pumps. :( Did our shopping, came out and when the car started it WOULDN'T IDLE!! Not good with the wife present. :oops: Then she informed me that the exhaust was blowing dirt all over behind the car. When parking I look for a place to run one end over a curb to avoid sticking out too far in the lot. One tail pipe was jammed in the dirt. :mrgreen: Pulled out a little and no problem. WHEW!! Its interesting that even with an H-pipe, stopping one tail pipe caused such a fuss.

Next challenge: cooling. Some symptoms suggest there is a lack of air flow thru the condenser and radiator.

. When the AC was charged up several months ago, it wouldn't blow cold while idling. Worked great driving at 45 MPH.

. With a new 180* thermostat, pretty new radiator, new water pump, hot tanked block, and new alum heads the temp climbs to 215* in traffic. Stays under 200 when moving.

The fan clutch was replaced after the AC incident but really offered no improvement. I can't remember if the fan clutch is thermal or non-thermal but Summit has a new thermal one for $31. I'm hoping :?: the clutch that's on it now is yet another bad replacement part and the next one fixes the issue. Otherwise, its going to be a bigger deal.

Added a pair of 15X7 steel wheels to the order. Its going to get 255/70 15s on the back at some point. My fingers are crossed hoping the stock hub caps fit on these aftermarket wheels. Buying the wheels now eliminates the shipping charge for the fan clutch. Spending $170 to save $10, that makes sense, right??
Maverick
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ttamrettus
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by ttamrettus »

Glad it was just a clogged pipe. It is stressful when you have someone with you and you don't trust the car or it acts up.
Matt Sutter
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by TireSmoker »

Sounds like the old "banana-in-the-tailpipe" trick... :-)

Yeah, having something go wrong with your project car when your SO is with you is really frustrating.. glad it wasnt serious.

-Dave
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Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

The wheels from Summit are going to work OK. Original hub caps fit well. Center hole is about 1/8" larger than the hubs. Original wheels are "hub centric", i.e., they fit snuggly over the hub and are centered by it. New wheels will be lug centric, i.e., centered by the lugs. Hope that's not an issue. I went thru this with the Maverick trying to find someone who could mount the Cragars on the balancer by the stud holes. Never did find anyone and never got rid of the shake.

Made an appointment this afternoon at Duty Tire to get the current wheels/tires rebalanced. Had to cancel when it wouldn't run right and gas was spurting out the bowl vents of the new QuickFuel carb. :shock: Restarted after cancelling the appointment and no issue. :?: Think maybe the run on messed up a float temporarily? Hope it doesn't happen again.

The 2nd replacement fan clutch is installed. Haven't idled it hot yet to see if the AC works any better or if temp stays down. I think the AC works better and it might stay a little cooler with the idle about 800 but then it runs on when hot. A throttle solenoid to step the idle up when AC is on or close the butterflies when the ignition is switched off would no doubt be a help.

Something is really screwy with this engine tune. I pulled the initial timing all the way back to 2* (0* indicated) and it STILL will sometimes kick back and give a couple of pings when starting. I believe the 2* timing because it now hesitates if the throttle is punched on idle. This all with 93 octane. I'll have to sleep on this 'cause I don't have a good idea for what to do next. Could put a new harmonic balancer on it in case its slipping. Could start from scratch with a compression test, leak down test, and re-tune. The cam timing is straight up but I didn't degree the cam. Could it be a cam timing issue? Maybe I should get a degree wheel and check the push rod lifts?

I'm beginning to feel like the Lincoln is snake bit. :cry:
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Basement Paul
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Basement Paul »

I'd try a different carb for the starting issue. It doesn't need to be the right carb for your application, just enough to get it warm and try to start it. No way the balancer is slipping only on start up. If changing the timing doesn't affect it, I'm going with carburetor tune somehow.
Also, for what it's worth, the 351C in my Mustang starts better with MORE timing when it's warm and also when it's cold. I know it sounds funny, but bump it up 5-6 degrees higher than you had it before, just for shits-n-grins and see what happens. You might be surprised. We just backed the timing down on that Cleveland a couple weeks ago, and I hated how it ran when cold, hot, warm, etc. Then I talked to a guy I knew at the track, and he said his old Cleveland liked a LOT of timing too.

Good luck.

-BP
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wxo
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by wxo »

Just thinking out of the box I was wondering if the spark is not igniting the fuel to cause the kickback, but something else like a hot spot on a sharp edge in the combustion chamber. How long must it cool before the kickback doesn't happen?
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Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

OK, I slept on it and ran it some more and am having some ideas. Think you guys might be on the right track. I'm wondering if a lean condition is getting things hot. I could go up a couple of jet sizes and put the timing back at 14* (12 indicated) and see what that does. I also have the original carb that was working fine when displacement was 460. Might try putting that on.

Only thing that's not consistent with lean/hot problem is it also kicked back when the engine was cold. That's what really has me puzzled. Cold kick back seems to say its a spark issue but retarding the timing doesn't fix it. :?:

Another possibility is induced sparks in the plug wires. #7 and #8 fire in succession and induced sparks are a known problem if those wires are close and parallel. They're separated so it shouldn't be an issue. Checked the distributor cap for arcing but none is evident. Wires are new MSD so they should be good.

I'm not sure but I think these issues popped up after I installed the custom curved distributor from the guru on the 460 forum. Can't believe the dist could be the problem since there are a lot of happy customers with one of his re-curved distributors. But, I could put the old distributor back in and see what that does.

In the drive today, it felt like the engine was laboring till the vacuum advance pulled in some more timing. I'm sure it wants more advance.

Anyway, I have some things to try ...
Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

Maverick wrote:Called QuickFuel this morning and got recommendations for larger replacement air bleeds (to address the imperfect idle and only 1/4 turn out on idle screws) and main jets (white plugs indicating too lean).

Primary air bleeds 70 going to 76, QF part number 26-76
Secondary air bleeds 39 going to 43, QF part number 26-43

Primary main jets 72 going to 74
Secondary main jets 82 going to 84

Holley jets fit the QF carb. Bought a Holley jet kit when the 347 in the Maverick wasn't idling well so no need to order replacement jets.

The air bleeds should be here this week.
Got 'er done! Changed the idle air bleeds a while ago and finally made the jet changes. Also put the timing back at 14* (12* indicated). Only got one hesitation while cranking. It does give a couple of pings sometimes when starting. No run on yet.

It might like more advance in the 2000-3000 RPM range. Open the throttle and then back off a little and it pulls harder. Maybe the vacuum advance is pulling in more advance? Or the vacuum secondaries opening up? Or a better mixture at part throttle? I need to get some WOT, high RPM tests but really don't want to do that on the nearby streets. I should look for a dyno day around here.
Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

After thinking about it some more, maybe I understand the limited air flow thru the AC condenser and radiator. I'm running a 180* thermostat where original was 195*. So, I suppose the thermal fan clutch is designed to engage somewhere above 195*. With the engine temp not that high, the fan clutch isn't engaged, not pulling much air thru the condenser and the AC isn't going to blow very cold.

Given that, its not surprising that the temp goes over 200* in warm/hot weather. So maybe the new threshold for concern should be 220 or so. And maybe it should get a 195* thermostat to get the AC to blow cold when the car isn't moving.

Lots of maybes here but it sounds right to me.
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

Looked into the fan clutches a bit more with WXO's help. Guess I was a bit high on the estimate for the temp at which the thermal clutches would engage. One reference says a clutch designed for a 195* thermostat should engage when air off the radiator is 165*. No matter, the fan clutch still should be matched to with the thermostat and changing the thermostat from 195* to 180* while using the same clutch is probably not going to give the best air conditioning when idling.

We found conflicting info on non-thermal clutch operation from Hayden, a fan clutch manufacturer.

A PDF file from Hayden says this:

Non-Thermal Fan Clutch
Low cost alternative for some standard thermal clutches.
Always engaged, less fuel savings than a
thermal clutch.
Spins at about 30-60% of the water pump speed.
Shorter life expectancy
Cannot replace a heavy-duty clutch
Identified by the smooth, steel faceplate (without a
thermal spring assembly) on the front.


Doesn't sound like a good alternative.

But, the Hayden web site fan clutch tutorial says this:

Non-thermal
Non-thermal clutches operate based on the shaft speed of the water pump. At low and idling speeds the clutch allows the fan blade to turn at almost a 1:1 ratio. At high speeds the silicone fluid contained in the clutch will lose its ability to transfer the energy from the shaft to the fan clutch body (and therefore the fan) and the fan is then allowed to almost free-wheel, removing its load from the engine.


Sounds VERY appropriate?!?!? So, what to believe? I'll try one and see how it works. Hayden 1710 Non-Thermal Fan Clutch is ordered from Summit. If that doesn't do it, I'll try a 195* thermostat. Not eager to go with the hotter thermostat with the kick back issues, sometime pings on starting and run on when the engine is hot.

New topic: carb flooding. On one occasion, fortunately while in the garage with the hood up and air cleaner off, the carb flooded with gas surging out the vent. After a minute it cleared itself and ran OK. Think the same thing happened Tuesday PM with a friend in the car. :oops:

WXO thought about fuel pressure and looked up recommended pressure for a QuickFuel carb: 6-6.5 PSI. Checked the fuel pressure gauge installed in the fuel line and its reading around 8 PSI. Might be enough to cause an occasional overpowering of the needle valves. So, a fuel pressure regulator is also on order from Summit to get the recommended pressure.
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Fuel Press Regulator and Non-thermal Fan Clutch

Post by Maverick »

Got the Summit fuel pressure regulator installed. Made a bracket for it to mount with the coil bracket from 1/8X3" flat steel. Tacked the two together and mounted them on the same bolt on the intake.

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I think the Edelbrock fuel pump, at 8 PSI, was overpowering the carb needle valve(s). I had noticed that the fuel pressure wiggled, +/- 1/2 PSI or so, around the previous 8 PSI reading. Now its rock steady at 6.5 PSI. Wasn't enough to make it noticeably rich but not desirable metering either. Float levels and idle mixture will be re-checked.

The non-thermal fan clutch blows a LOT more air on idle. Off idle it moves the plug wires. I expect an improvement in AC output when idling in traffic.
Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

A noise had developed in the left front wheel. It was more pronounced when turning and went away if the brakes were applied a little. Substantial force left and right on the wheel while off the ground got the noise and also some play in the steering. Since I couldn't put enough force on the wheel while under the car looking for problems, WXO came over to apply the force while I looked for the play and noise. Play is in the steering box but the noise was in the wheel. The play in the steering box is going to stay there for some time. A rebuild is the solution but that's a few hundred dollars and they don't always turn out well. Experts say these steering boxes are very difficult to rebuild and get right.

To find the noise we pulled the wheel and saw that the outer pad was loose in the caliper. I recall instructions on some Ford pad replacements, not these I think, to bend the tabs as necessary to get the outer pad to fit snuggly in the caliper. Anti-rattle clips take up the slack for the inner pads but, for some reason, not the outers. With a big hammer and small anvil we managed to bend the tabs without removing the pads. Noise is gone and the brakes are smoother too. :)

Time to call Duty Tire again to see about that 70 MPH shake.
Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

Took the Lincoln to Duty Tire to get the wheels re-balanced and, hopefully, get rid of the 70 MPH shake. Duty did a great job on my wife's wheel balance so I was suspicious that something other than balance was not right. Told the owner he'd balanced the wheels before but it still had a shake at 70 and asked him to look for tires out of round, bent wheel, or some other problem. They found two tires that are "a little" out of round so they moved them to the back. They worked on it for almost an hour for no charge. :)

Had it out for a test today and it feels like the shake is less severe and also feels like its been moved to the back. Guess the solution is some wider meats. :mrgreen:

Next problem: fuel is boiling in the fuel system. :( Now I think the fuel supply problem its had 2-3 times wasn't caused by the over-zealous fuel pump (8 PSI vs 6-6.5 recommended for the carb) but rather by boiling fuel. Boiling in the fuel pump (erratic pressure when hot), boiling in the line to the carb (transparent filter before the carb is sometimes nearly empty of liquid), and boiling in the carb (saw it spit out the vent once). Its never had a vapor lock where it wouldn't run -- I suppose because there's never been a shortage of fuel in the bowls. Sight glass for float levels has been OK every time I've checked it. I'm sure the problem is the lower boiling point(s) of today's gas and high under-hood temps.

There was a 1" aluminum spacer under the carb which has been replaced with a Moroso 1" plastic spacer left over from some project.

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Also added an alum heat shield off an '85 F150. (Saw one of these on ebay for $120!!!)

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This 460 originally came with an intake gasket that included an aluminum sheet to keep oil off the exhaust-heated intake and avoid collecting burned oil on it.

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Since the Edelbrock intake doesn't have exhaust heat, and on the advice from experts, I used the FelPro intake gaskets that didn't have the aluminum sheet. If I was doing it over I'd get the gasket with the sheet but I really don't think it would have helped the boiling fuel problem.

After a short drive yesterday in 90* temp, fuel pressure was unsteady around 5 PSI (down from 6.5) and the pre-carb, transparent fuel filter was 3/4 empty and bubbling. Everything under the hood was 130*-150*, including the fuel pump and carb with insulating spacer and heat shield. Air off the radiator was 165*. Fuel sight glasses showed the fuel level to be correct and the car ran OK but that's no way to run a carb. Gotta get consistent fuel flow and pressure and gas to the cylinders with volatiles in tact.

There are four potential solutions:

1. Insulate all under-hood fuel components and depend on cool gas getting to and thru the carb. That's not going to be easy in this case. The fuel pump is touching the lower radiator hose with no room for insulation. Think I've done what I can for the carb and its still as hot as the rest of the under-hood fuel components.

2. Use non-alcohol gas and/or fuel additives to raise the boiling point. I want to be able to use widely available gas as is.

3. Use a recirculating regulator to keep cool gas flowing from the tank. Holley offers these as add ons with a return line to the tank installed.

4. A rear-mounted electric fuel pump to pressurize most of the fuel system which will raise the boiling point up to the pressure regulator and overcome any vapor lock. As much as I'd rather not do this, it's probably the best alternative. Did this with the '70 F100, including low oil pressure cut-off (for roll over protection). A 12V feed from the starter solenoid ran the pump before oil pressure was up and a push button on the dash could prime the carb when needed. Would rather not do all that to the Lincoln but maybe that's the right answer. :(
Maverick
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Re: 1978 Lincoln Continental Coupe

Post by Maverick »

There is a plan to solve the fuel vaporization problem. An Edelbrock electric fuel pump http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1791 will be installed by the fuel tank. A Ron Francis relay/inertia switch http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rfw-cr92 will be installed in the trunk rather than a low oil pressure switch under the hood and a push button on the dash to bypass the switch. The mechanical fuel pump will be bypassed. May or may not remove it and install a block off plate. Under-hood fuel line will be insulated. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-731001erl

I expect that will solve the problems but, if it doesn't, a bypass regulator with return line will be added to continually circulate cool fuel to the carb. The listing for that fuel pump says it has a max of 6.5 PSI but, in fact, output pressure is adjustable up to 10 PSI, which I'll do before installing it. Will leave the current regulator in place dropping fuel PSI to 6.5 at the carb. Running the pump at 10 PSI increases the (marginal for this set up at 6.5 PSI) GPH capacity and should provide good circulation if a bypass regulator and return line is required. I looked for a pump that would support the return line if needed.

Edelbrock tech support confirmed that the 1791 pump was adequate for a 530 HP 521 engine at 5500 RPM, which is all it'll see. Running it at 10 PSI provides a safety margin. Having the engine lean out at WOT would NOT be good.

The stuff was ordered from Summit this morning. Hope to have it by Friday.
Maverick
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