1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

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Maverick
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1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:04 am

I'm just thinking at this point but decided to start a "Phase 2" project thread to solicit info and comments.

Current thinking on priorities for the potential Phase 2:

1. Common laptop-tunable EFI and ignition. I'm thinking about availability of software and likelyhood of finding a dyno tuner that's familiar with the setup.
2. Overdrive auto that fits in a '72 Mav
3. Diagnostics
4. Donor availability
5. Real time display of tuning info
6. Usable wiring harness
7. Aftermarket performance enhancers
8. Aftermarket single display electronic gauges

Got some comments from the Maverick forum. See http://mmb.maverick.to/showthread.php?p ... post753653 if interested. Unfortunately, there never was an OBD II 5.0L in a car and the truck (Explorer/Mountaineer, Bronco, F-series) stuff brings additional issues to the Maverick. Maverick guys are suggesting an EEC IV '87-'93 Mustang donor.

Heads on the '96 and later (OBD II) 5.0 Ford trucks are another issue. GT40 heads work well on the Maverick but the donor would have to be '96 or early '97. In mid-'97, Ford switched to (better) GT40P heads that don't fit well in a Maverick because the plugs are straight out. OBD II donor could only be '96 and early '97.

Comments appreaciated.
Maverick

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Fred32v
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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Fred32v » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:21 pm

I think a complete aftermarket FI & ignition system from Summit racing specific to you application.
I'd let your tuner fellow help you decide so he can tune it.
If you where here I'm sure Hutter would have some suggestions and your guy will too.
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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:53 pm

Fred32v wrote:I think a complete aftermarket FI & ignition system from Summit racing specific to you application.
I'd let your tuner fellow help you decide so he can tune it.
If you where here I'm sure Hutter would have some suggestions and your guy will too.


Fred,

I thought a little about aftermarket EFI but even the throttle body efi is quite expensive and I don't think it manages the auto trans (not sure that's an issue with pre-'93 transmissions).

Agree on consulting with tuner. I could drop a lot of $$$$ with him working on an unfamiliar system. WXO will want to take the GTO down there one of these days. I can pick his brain then.
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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:49 am

The '88-'92 Mustang or Cougar is the best donor according to guys on the Maverick forum. The ECM is EEC IV, their recommendation as having good tuning software and mass air flow, which is most self-adapting to changes like headers, heads, cam, ... The overdrive transmission is not computer controlled and fits in the Maverick tunnel. Those 5.0s are 225HP in stock form and respond well to upgrades.

Lincoln Mark VII has the same setup but the AOD has a 1" longer tail shaft/housing. That would be a possibility if the trans was bad and had to be replaced anyway. All the trucks (Explorer, F150, Bronco, ...) have wider mounted accessories and taller intakes.

An '88 Mustang 5.0/AOD was listed on Craigslist last night just before midnight. Called at 8:30 this morning and left a message but no call back yet. :evil: If anyone comes across an '88-'92 Mustang or Cougar with 5.0, 5-speed or auto, that looks like a potential donor please let me know. I'm thinking $500 for donor with rebuildable cores up to $2000 with low milage and everything ready to drop in. Looking for one with unmolested engine, computer and wiring.

EDIT: He called. Going to look at it this evening. Sounds good from what he says on the phone.
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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby GMJohnny » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:40 pm

Maverick,

OVERDRIVE!!!!!! It makes every car so much more streetable, and you can gear it
down later and get the same or better mileage. Best bang for the buck is overdrive
and a loose stall. Just my suggestion....

GM

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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:13 pm

Decided to pass on the '88 Stang. Engine sounded good but no title, Illinois plate, stored at a friend's house, and a trashed clutch. Just didn't feel right. I'll keep looking.
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347 Stroker

Postby Maverick » Wed May 25, 2011 4:37 pm

I'm thinking about a 347 stroker built by a pretty new (I think) shop over by Charlotte.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/17063280 ... 3D1&_rdc=1

Sent them this inquiry:

Dear prestigemsports,

YOu don't say what compression ratio, cam specs, etc. and those heads might be too aggresive for a well-mannered street engine. Do you offer options that would deliver a 347 with streetable idle and vacuum? I like your price! Jim in Raleigh


Got this response:

Jim,
If you can please give me a shout as we can explain in further detail the engine specs and the project you are planning on installing it into


Didn't call they right back but instead sent them this:

Doug,

I recently restored a '72 Maverick Sprint.

(Picture included here.)

Installed a carbed 5.0, stock HO cam, performance C4, stock converter, and Traction Loc 3.0 rear with 25" high tires. Engine dynoed at 200 rear wheel HP. Its fun but I'd like more engine. I'm guessing the car weighs about 3000 lbs. Have a custom exhaust with Doug Thorley shorties, 2.5" exhaust pipes, Thrush Turbos, X-pipe, and 2.25" tail pipes.

Been thinking about a 347 stroker. Nothing wild, maybe 300 rw HP. I'm willing to go up a little on the converter stall, maybe 2200 or so. May go to 15" wheels with 26" tall tires some day. Will stay with the 3.0 TL rear unless I get an AOD someday. Exhaust system will stay.

This car is a driver so street manners and dependability are critical. Has to be comfortable around town, on road trips and in the church parking lot. Compression ratio maybe in the 9.5-10 range. Would love to run it on regular pump gas but premium isn't out of the question.

Want a cam for best performance with reasonable economy and mild manners. I'm thinking the heads you're advertising with big valves and intake runners might not be the best for my application but that's not based on any experience. Just the impression I get from reading things. Wondering if there might be some less expensive heads that would suit the application better.

I'll give you a call but thought it would be helpful to write down my thoughts beforehand.

Jim Arnold


Doug answered:

Jim,
First off great car and looks fantastic. I can understand the need for streetability and like I stated that combination is very streetable. Going to a dart pro 1 with a 170cc runner rather than the 195 and a slightly smaller intake valve from a 2.02 to a 1.94 will change the combination slightly. If the lumpy sound is not a major need than a slight smaller cam also will do the trick. The one suggestion is that the base 425hp combo does run great and will net the near 300RWHP or a bit better. With using this set up if by chance you want to make 470HP in the future you can achieve this with a simple cam change and be right back on the road. If that is never a thought than lets develop this unit with the 170cc head and a little milder cam and see where we land. In allot of cases we have found it hard to take power away from a well built combination. We are more than glad to archive the closest power range to what you are looking for. As for the converter I would say that a 2200 to 2500 stall would work great with the smaller cam and heads and we can help supply that as well

Like I said just a quick call would be nice to chat about this.

Thanks Again
Doug Aitken


Called him this afternoon. Sounds like a good guy. And, HE'S A CARB TUNER!!!Suggested I come over and have a tour and talk with their cam designer. Sounds like a good idea to me. Opinions????
Maverick

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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby oldvettedad » Wed May 25, 2011 5:17 pm

I like your thinking. These guys are close enough you could check it out yourself. The one thing I can tell you is you can't build your own motor for the price these guys crank out crate motors. It really is the way to go for street motors.
have you checked around for other similar deals? :wink:

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347?

Postby Maverick » Wed May 25, 2011 7:24 pm

I've looked some and this price looks good. Might get one a little cheaper but this guy is just a little over 2 hours away and I like the way he's responding so far. Seems willing to custom build for cookie cutter cost. (Will know for sure about price when we get specific about that.) Not a lot of sales on ebay but 100% satisfaction. Most recommendations were for fordstrokers.com but they're more expensive and in Calif. No sales tax but shipping would probably be as much. The 347s that Summit and JEGS sell are flat tappet 302s. :(

Only thing I'm speptical about is his 475 HP claim. Think the blocks split apart somewhere around there. Gotta check that out.

Think I'll drive the Sprint over and see what he says. WXO, you up for a road trip?
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Prestige Motorsports

Postby Maverick » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:49 pm

WXO and I made the run to Charlotte today. The owner of Prestige Motorsports is a young guy that seems like a straight shooter. Nice shop. Very clean and six or so interesting cars in the shop but not a lot going on. Only one guy was doing anything -- building an engine. Hope his business survives, we liked what we saw. Think he'd be a good source for an engine.

Price for the engine, built the way I'd want it, is the same as the ebay price for the standard motor. He uses quality parts, e.g., Dart heads and Eagle crank and rods. Its tempting but a lot of money. Not sure if I'll take the plunge. :?:
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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby oldvettedad » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:11 pm

You only live once, and the only thing money can't buy is time. Don't waste it (time that is) :)

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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:30 pm

I set a goal for myself for a go/no go decision on the 347 when I came back from our MI trip 10 days ago. Haven't met the goal but I'm making a little progress.

There was so little activity and so much expense in facilities and equipment at Prestige Motors in Charlotte that I'm a little concerned with how long they'll be around. Decided to test the water with a query on how much money he wanted up front. As an ebay seller, he gets everything up front but that would be a deal breaker for me. Answer: usualy 75% up front. So, I suggested about 1/3 up front and he didn't say no. He'd like a little more but sounds like he'd accept 1/3. I don't mind fronting him some 'cause its a unique build. And, even though he has a short block ready to go, he has to buy heads, intake, cam, etc for the build. I'm OK on the up front question now.

Another thing pushing me toward the 347 is the unexpected loss in performance when the 15" tires went on. I need more motor. :mrgreen:

An ad for the current 5.0 went up on Craigslist last evening. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pts/2550756993.html If it sells the decision is made.
Maverick

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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Basement Paul » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:51 pm

I love the way the Cragers looks, but besides the tires being taller, the rims I'm sure are heavier, which isn't helping anything. I really think you have enough motor there, but not enough gear and converter. That should be a locking 3000 stall converter with an AOD trans and a 4.11 gear. This is a pretty common combination with the Mustand AOD guys, and still very streetable / highway-able, and would make a HUGE difference in the performance of the car.

But... I'm also a firm believer that there's no replacement for displacement. I think if you wanted to keep a low stall converter and a freeway gear, you might be better to find a mildly modified 351 windsor with a mild cam instead of a winding 347. Just my opinion, and probably would be cheaper.

Good luck either way.

-BP

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Re: 1972 Maverick Sprint - Phase 2

Postby Maverick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:54 pm

Hi Paul,

I agree the current gears and TC aren't good for acceleration. An AOD, steeper gears, and higher stall TC would be a really nice setup. I've thought about it. Might get there if I live long enough. While the AOD will fit in the trans tunnel, its considerable effort to get one in (issues with shifter, steering column lock, custom cross member, back up lights, Neutral start sw, throttle pressure cable, and speedometer cable) and I've already invested in a beefed up C4.

351W can be shoe horned in but headers and plugs are a real pain unless the shock towers are cut or removed with a Mustang II type front suspension. Most guys that squeeze them in without tower mods swear they wouldn't do it again.

The 302 is a very tight fit. It takes a little noodling to get the right combination of tools to change plugs. A plug socket and ratchet won't do some of them. Exhaust mainifolds can't be removed with the engine in place -- bolts hit the towers. Its about impossible to torque the head bolts with the engine in. The wider, taller 351W makes it all worse.

I thought about the roller tappet 351W that came in trucks in '96-'97 IIRC. One of those, maybe even stroked, would be ideal with Mustang II type suspension and towers removed. Think that will have to be Phase 3. I'd have to get psyched up for another long project.

You're right, I was surprised how heavy the Cragars are. :shock: But, I really like them too. Think the extra cubes and better heads and cam will overcome it all. We talking about a 50% increase from about 200 to about 300 RWHP. :mrgreen:

Thanks for comments.

Jim
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Comments on 351W in a Maverick

Postby Maverick » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:15 am

These comments are what I see on the Maverick Forum from guys that have installed a 351W. Would be great with Mustang II type suspension, towers removed, and functional hood scoop.

A 302-based stroker will just about drop in the car by itself ... all factory parts, headers available, etc.

A 351W-based motor will need custom headers, and I am not aware of any that are big tube, so they will likely not be the best choice for a 408. Cut shock towers are a great idea, but they still don't really solve much for the headers. The upper A-Arms and the exhaust ports are still fighting for the same space. You would be better off in general to swap the front suspension to Mustang II stuff. The headers would be easy ... so would a big block ...

Other areas that will need attention ... the motor is taller. I have a short Edelbrock Performer on mine ... I would love an Air-Gap, but I am already crowded for air cleaner space, and mine is going into the hood scoop through a cut hood.

My oil filter was rubbing the shock tower if the motor torqued over ... ran a short Mopar filter until cutting another notch in the tower.

These cars are so light, that it is already like having 20% more motor in there in the first place. I am seriously thinking 331 next for myself.
Maverick


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