Chevelle winter projects

Update your progress on your various car projects.

Moderators: MostMint, wxo, Fred32v, Basement Paul, ttamrettus

User avatar
72 Deuce
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Location: Mentor Ohio

Post by 72 Deuce »

Mark,
Did the Nova and (more importantly to me ) the trailer make it home ? I forgot to look this morning when I left for work.


Dave,
I looked at the photos that you posted of your tank and pump. I think you need to lower the mounting point of your pump. I just installed a new Holley Blue on my Nove and it recommended somewhere below the fuel tank and if not, as low as possible. Even though your pump is now priming it self, these style punps aren't good at sucking (kinda like an old girl friend of mine but thats a whole other story) they are meant for pushing. The lower you can get it the better off your going to be. This might also account for the pressure drop your seeing when you bring up the RPM. As a test, just add some hose and wire and let it hang below the tank and see if that cures the problem.

Just thought I would throw my two cents in.

GOOD LUCK
May your Chevy always see a Ford in its rearview mirror.
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

Well I replaced the pump and so far so good. I understand what you're saying (and agree), but in a practical sense, where else can I mount the pump where it is below tank level and not hanging out in the open? Unless I were to move it to the framerail area around the doors (in front of rear axle), but then there's the issue of they don't like to suck, and how would I run the fuel feed from the tank if that was a good location? I'm really at a loss for ideas here.

I've driven the car around the past two days and, knock-on-wood, so far so good.

-Dave
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

Well, it runs and drives, but I still can't do WOT. I'm still losing fuel pressure. Next up, new regulator.

Here's a few video clips I shot today. This thing is gonna sound wicked when its finally running right.

http://www.tiresmoke.org/images/chevelle-etec-clips.wmv (2 MB)

-Dave
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

Here's a video of it losing fuel pressure

I was just having Mark bring it up hard on the converter. It's starting at about 38, and 40-50 would have the needle at 12'-o-clock. Instead, it's dropping to about 10-15. No good.

I have the new regulator after another trip to Summit yesterday. I'll get it installed today -- it's really nice outside.

-Dave
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

Well, another day and more confusion. I replaced the regulator, which was really quite simple. To test it, I started the car and let it idle for a second and then snapped the throttle open by hand. I could see the pressure dropping to low. Actually, if everything is working correctly, when I snap the throttle open, the pressure should rise, since applying vacuum to the regulator lowers the pressure.

Next, I pulled the fuel filter off the inlet of the pump. I got some really ugly looking brownish/blackish gunk dripping from the inlet side of the filter. Could this be clogging the filter? While at Summit yesterday, I picked up a small Russell filter that the guy said should be ok on the inlet side of an EFI pump. I installed this in the system and re-tested -- pressure didn't drop! Maybe I'm on to something. I took the car for a drive up the street, but it started running crappy shortly after getting out of the driveway, even at part throttle where it had been running ok before. I ended up turning around before getting 1/4 mile up the street. It died on me and I just coasted it back home.

I pulled the fuel tank and fuel pump. To drain the gas, I used the neighbors old pump (the pump I just removed a couple days ago) hooked to the sump of my tank and pumped the fuel into a gas can to drain it. It seemed to be pumping fine and the fuel coming out looked clean. (no filter involved). My original thought after the car died is that I've gotten some dirt into the fuel system. Once I pulled the tank, I peered inside as best I could, but I can't see anything that looks gunky or dirty. But there is no mistaking the black "gunk" on the inside of the filters. I blew compressed air into the supply line on the car and had it come out the return line in the back (spraying some remaining gasoline all over me in the process). I inspected the supply and return lines from the back to the front of the car and I can't find anything wrong. It doesn't leak, and I don't see it smashed or crimped anywhere.

I am just plain stumped at this point. I want to get the tank boiled out or whatever can be done to clean the inside. I'm going to plumb in a filter on the pressure side (after the pump) where it really belongs, instead of relying soley on the filter on the inlet of the pump. But my previous setup with a filter only on the inlet of the pump worked all last summer. Did I get lucky then, or just getting un-lucky now?

The only other oddity I considered in this -- on the original MSD pump that I used, it had a 5/16" barb output fitting. So I used a section (2-3 feet) of 5/16" EFI-rated rubber hose from the pump to the hardline. The hardline is 3/8". Could this be enough of a restriction in the supply? The new pump has a 3/8" barb output, but I just stretched the 5/16 hose over it and clamped it. I could understand if I was having a problem keeping it fueled at WOT 4000-5000 RPM, but Mark and I couldn't get WOT at 3000 RPM. I'm sure I'll replace the 5/16" hose with 3/8" before it goes back together, but I'm about out of ideas.

-Dave
markss327
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:23 am
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio

Post by markss327 »

Man..... this sucks.
I can't believe 5/16 id fuel line will cause this problem. Although, I agree on the 3/8 upgrade. I thought for sure it was gona be a regulator issue.

.... In keeping with the regulator thing, if she's vacuum controlled, and low vacuum will *should* increase PSI, is the regulator getting vacuum from the proper source? I know with carbs, ther's manifold vac, and then ther's ported vac. Do you have another source for vacuum supply to the regulator?
-Mark
2012 Impala LT 3.6 VVTDI
300hp - a bit much for FWD!
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

The FPR it's getting vacuum from the right source -- manifold vacuum, from the rear of the plenum, which is the same place I have the map-sensor and TH350 vacuum modulator plumbed in.

-Dave
markss327
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:23 am
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio

Post by markss327 »

Well, it was a thought.
I've messed up vacuum lines before. Along with spark plug wires, headlight wires, horn relay wires .etc. :)
I believe it's called Human Error !!!!

How about - fabricating a whole new, but temporary fuel system. Starting with a 5gal fuel container, fuel pump/filter. Pump could be an existing one. Run EFI hose to the regulator, at the rail. The idea is to take the plumbing out of the equation. Add in a psi gage just after the pump/filter assy, but before the regulator. I'd be curious to see what that gage reads at WFO.

OR - just add a fuel psi gage before the regulator. This would confirm/deny a pump or plumbing issue, from the tank to the rail.

Man, I'm thinking about this issue, more than my Nova.
-Mark
2012 Impala LT 3.6 VVTDI
300hp - a bit much for FWD!
User avatar
ttamrettus
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: on the edge

Post by ttamrettus »

Try disconnecting everything from the vacuum source except for the regulator.
See if you can get pressure with it in park in the garage and no other vacuum used.
Matt Sutter
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Post by TireSmoker »

I dropped the tank off at Kaufman's Radiator Service yesterday on Euclid Ave (near Mullinax Ford) to be flushed out. Les Conrad, the owner, used to race out at Thompson quite bit in a late-60s Satellite. When I worked at BP in high school, we used to send radiators there for service. He's the guy that made my current radiator several years ago.

I'm not sure when I'll be getting it back, but I suspect just a day or two.. hopefully.

-Dave
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

Finally, success!

Post by TireSmoker »

I finally got the car put back together today, not without some minor hassles along the way. I had the fuel tank flushed out at Kaufman's radiator service. I got another new inlet filter, another Fram G3. I also picked up a filter for the pressure side, a Holley 562-1. It's a high pressure filter with 3/8" barb fittings on either end, so it was very easy to plumb into the system.

Once it was back together, I had Linda watch the fuel pressure gauge while I brake-torqued it in the garage. She said the pressure didn't drop when I was doing that, so that seemed good. I drove it around for 10-15 minutes and everything seemed fine. But it still ran pretty crappy at WOT.

I decided that instead of trying to modify my old fuel map, I would have it auto-generate a new base map. What a difference! It still needs some massaging, but I was finally able to run it at WOT! I made a quick run in first gear up Richmond Rd. It felt really strong, although I thought I heard some detonation. I was running out of time, so I put it away for now and will play more tomorrow.

Videos to come...

-Dave
User avatar
ttamrettus
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: on the edge

Post by ttamrettus »

Go LINDA..

She was good luck.

When is she going to get her own creeper?
Matt Sutter
User avatar
TireSmoker
Site Admin
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:45 pm
Location: roaming the Matrix
Contact:

WOT video

Post by TireSmoker »

The video you've all been waiting for..

It's still not 100%, but I'm gonna race it on Wednesday.

Can it beat a 12.62? 8)

-Dave
markss327
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:23 am
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio

Post by markss327 »

Oh, yea...... 8)
-Mark
2012 Impala LT 3.6 VVTDI
300hp - a bit much for FWD!
User avatar
ttamrettus
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: on the edge

Post by ttamrettus »

I can't wait for the results and the video of the pass.
Matt Sutter
Post Reply