garage design

[TireSmoker]

Ok guys, I'm in the planning stages for putting up a new garage here at Tiresmoke central. I can do a 30x40 without getting a zoning variance (actually, I can do 1280 sq ft w/o variance). Fred32v has suggested going 30x48. Every neighbor that borders my property has some sort of extra building, so I don't think getting a variance for a larger building would be difficult.

Some of you have been to my house.. I will be locating the garage in the backyard, beyond the end of my current driveway. In either the 30x40 or 30x48 format, the short side will be facing the driveway. I'm 99% certain it will look better that way.

My original plan was to have the door on the front side, giving me a garage that was 2 cars wide by 2 cars deep, with plenty of room at the back for workbenches, toolboxes, etc. I'm also absolutely planning on having a lift (probably a 2-post) , even if not immediately. However, my uncle suggested that I put the door(s) on the long side, giving me 3 or 4 cars wide, by 1 car deep. A series of bays, if you will. If I go with the 2wide x 2deep layout, where would be the best place for the lift?

This isn't the best picture, but you can see I have a long driveway (125 feet?) and the new garage will be in the back. Vehicles in the picture are at the end of the driveway. If I put the doors on the long side as my uncle suggests, you'd make a right turn into the garage, just like the house's attached garage.

I'm just not sure where to start with the planning. I'm not in a huge hurry, would like to start building in the spring, so I want to spend the time to plan it out well. Suggestions?

edit: added 2nd pic to better show where it will go.

[GMJohnny]

Smoker,

I'm assuming that your decision may hinge a bit on budget. If so, I have to think
that entering the short side will most probably be the least expensive. Extra garage doors
will add to the cost. I agree with your uncle, I think entering the long side is better, largely
because you don't have to move cars to get to other cars. Growing up, as you know, Fred32v's
garage was deep. We did a lot of car moving to get in and out. It was a great garage, but that
was the only strike against it. When planning a new garage, I would recommend high ceilings,
plenty of electrical outlets, windows and a man door. Concrete floors are a must. Central air &
a nice heating source is a good idea, and a bedroom woud be mint too!!!

Good luck with the planning & I know plenty of good contractors in the area, if you need help
with that, feel free to call me.

GM

[TireSmoker]

Budget is important, but I want to make sure I do a good one. Will definitely have high ceilings and a concrete floor. I'm tentatively planning for a 12-foot ceiling, for accommodating a lift. Probably won't need a bedroom -- still got two extras in the house plus the baaaseeement.

Your point about moving cars around is well noted. Also, for lighting, I'm planning on putting in a couple skylights to let in as much natural light as I can (in addition to plenty of electric lighting). I'll also be running all piping/conduit for water, gas, electric, compressed air, internet, cable TV, to at least get them into the new building.

I'm also trying to figure out to some degree where everything (benches, toolbox, sand blast cabinet, welding area) oughta go just to get an idea of what the finished product might be like. Maybe I'm overthinking a bit, but I just don't wanna get a building up and go "oh, wish I would've done XYZ instead." Been looking at a lot of garage pics on the internet looking for ideas.

-Dave

[oldvettedad]

. Maybe I'm overthinking a bit, but I just don't wanna get a building up and go "oh, wish I would've done XYZ instead."

-Dave

You always end up saying that! You are on the right track with planning as much as possible. Some things to think about:
1. Windows. i know you said skylights, and thats good, but put in windows too if you can afford them. The natural light is preferrable to flourescent.
2. You may need higher than 12 ft ceilings to comfortably have a lift. Do you know how the roof will be supported? Trusses are strongest, but limit your height. The pitch of the roof is also a limiting factor. Check out the garage I had built in my Corvette Project thread. Even though it is stick built, it is the same design as a metal standalone building. Plan for as much electric as you can get. And don't forget, you will probably want at least 2 circuits, maybe 3. At least one 220.
3. Try your best to know what your ultimate use will be. Workshop, storage, some combo. Also think about all the "stuff" you will accumulate and where to put it? Cabinets? Ceiling storage?
4. Moving cars is a pain, Think about a garage door at each end of the building.
5. Have you thought about putting in a heated water lines in your concrete floor? I didn't do it, but went to a shop that had done it and its amazing how much warmer everything feels. You could even solar power it if you want to be "green".
6. Finish the concrete floor so it will be impervious to spills and easy to clean. I thought about epoxy finishes, but my mason used a poyurethane sealer that is impervious to just about everything. Gasoline does soften it after a while, but nothig else permeates it.

Good luck. Will be looking forward to the progress.

Oh, if you want "man cave" space, don't forget to design it in now!

[Maverick]

I know plumbing complicates things a lot but a laundry tub for washing up would be very handy.

When pouring the floor for my 12X24 shed/garage, they had a 1/2 yard of mixed concrete they wanted to dump. After I got over my initial reaction, had them dump it right behind the shed and level it off. Didn't know what I would use it for but its been handy as a place to stack tires and other parts out of sight. MAYBE you won't have a space problem with the building you're planning but if you don't you'll be the first.

A guy I know has his air compressor mounted on an outdoor slab extension to save space and avoid noise in the shop. Has a little slant roof over it. Didn't seem like a great idea to me but, its been like that for years with no issues.

I was thinking I might move my generator out on the slab when I need to run it. Haven't needed to run it since the shed/garage was built.

[oldvettedad]

I know plumbing complicates things a lot but a laundry tub for washing up would be very handy.

A guy I know has his air compressor mounted on an outdoor slab extension to save space and avoid noise in the shop. Has a little slant roof over it. Didn't seem like a great idea to me but, its been like that for years with no issues.

.

Maverick makes a good point about a wash tub/sink. I wish I had one. Also, compressor outside is a great idea. I wish I had done that. Although my neighbors might not agree if I did put it outside. Which reminds of one more thing. Plumbing for air! Plumb your air lines and have several drops along the way. You can plumb in a regulator and water separator, all along the walls and you won't be tripping over air hoses all the time. I used a 50 foot retractable on the wall and I still have too much hose out, too much of the time. There are plenty of air kits around as well as doing it the old fashioned way of buying pipe and fittings.

[Maverick]

INSULATE!!! Its expensive but it made heat and AC possible with a 220 wall mounted heater and a tiny window AC unit. Extends the useful time a lot.

Another use for an outdoor slab: parts washer to keep the fumes outside.

[TireSmoker]

Lots of good ideas guys.

My compressor is currently in my basement and plumbed up to my garage with a few feet of hard line. I'm curious if I'd have a measureable pressure drop if it has to run 50-100', or if I should just plan on relocating the compressor out to the new building?

Will definitely plan on insulating. My "first" garage at my grandparents house was un-insulated and my garage at my old house was un-insulated, and my current one IS insulated and it does make a big difference.

Wash tub is a good idea. I'll make sure to plan for it.

Roof will likely be supported by trusses. It'll most likely be a pole building, not stick frame. If that matters. I'm not real smart on construction stuff.

-Dave

[MostMint]

What kind of build are you putting up - a pole building or foundation? Do you care if the building architecture and outside material match the house (roof pitch, siding or brick, shutters, do the car doors and man doors match the house, roofing materials, ridge vent)? Making these things match make the garage look like it belongs. While I chose siding rather than cedar and brick, I used the same garage door, man door, roof pitch and the "eyebrow" overhang over the door. I think my garage shape looks like it belongs with the house.

I spent a lot of time planning before I had mine built. Went with 6" reinforced concrete for the lift, two floor drain, had a 4" open pipe put in the ground between the house and the garage for future expansion (cable, internet, ?). I put R4 insulation (blue stuff like 3/4" thick) on the outside of the wood under the siding - cheap and easy to do now. Also, maybe a line for air back to the house garage, or put the compressor in the house garage then the line is supply to the new garage. I originally planned 28' wide for enough room for two cars opening doors wide and not hitting cabinets or shelves along the wall. 32' deep was enough to have a third car across the front if needed and other stuff around. Think about how many big things you want to have and build for that. Are you really going to have 6 running cars in the garage? How many spare parts do you want to keep for each of them? Stuff you are keeping by accident (bought it, had a purpose, now the car is sold and it's just sitting there), well I would not advise building space to store that.

I'd put the lift in a back bay so you don't have to drive through it all the time.

If you go with two 16' wide doors, you will have less wall space and potentially more places for your heat to leak out. If you choose one garage door, think about how to configure the garage so you can get two cars and the motorcycle out without moving anything.

[Maverick]

Lots of good ideas guys.

My compressor is currently in my basement and plumbed up to my garage with a few feet of hard line. I'm curious if I'd have a measureable pressure drop if it has to run 50-100', or if I should just plan on relocating the compressor out to the new building?

Will definitely plan on insulating. My "first" garage at my grandparents house was un-insulated and my garage at my old house was un-insulated, and my current one IS insulated and it does make a big difference.

Wash tub is a good idea. I'll make sure to plan for it.

Roof will likely be supported by trusses. It'll most likely be a pole building, not stick frame. If that matters. I'm not real smart on construction stuff.

-Dave

See http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/compr ... _1014.html Not a lot of loss, even with 1/2" line. Great idea to have the noise remote. Down here it would be a big advantage to have the air coming from a dehumidified space.

[oldvettedad]

Somebody mentioned a parts washer and where to place it. Good point, what do you do after washing a part? Rinse it off and/or blow it off with compressed air? Where? Inside your nice new garage? No, outside! So position these things near where they will need to be. Outside is not necessarily good in cold climates like NY or OH, water based solvents will freeze (the water part). Ideally if I had space I would have a wash room with running water and a floor drain INSIDE my garage for doing this.
BTW, if you can't do a floor drain, then compensate by having your garage floor have a slight pitch to the outside. I did that and all liquids head outside quickly. A slight drop of 1/2 to 1 inch is more than adequate.

[Maverick]

Outside is not necessarily good in cold climates like NY or OH

How soon you forget ...

[VeeDub]

Fred32v suggested a 30x48...a little larger. that means less grass to cut

[TireSmoker]

So, I guess after reading this, this is sorta what I want to try to do.. I need a garage to basically have two, maybe three cars housed in it full time. Currently the Chevelle, the Corvette, and potentially a third vehicle. Dad would probably want to park his Mustang there in the winter. There will be a 2-post lift. I'd also like to keep my 48" mower out there, along with a few extra small pieces of lawn equipment. Plus there needs to be a workspace. That would free up the nook in my house garage for a comfortable motorcycle spot.

1) Pole Building, 12' ceiling height, with extra concrete as required to accommodate a lift. (top plate lift). I've asked around, and I think 12' should be sufficient. Need to find out what that piping in the concrete for heat costs. Try to tie it in with the current house with similar architecture and style where possible. Whats the cost of materials difference from 30x40 to 30x48 ?

2) Make sure I have a few floor drains, including one in a parts washing area, possibly near a door for ventilation. A utility sink with hot and cold water from the house along with a gas line, 50amp of electrical service (with 220), a 3/8" air line, keep the compressor located in basement -- a somewhat dry-air environment. Cat 6 cable, tv-coax cable.

3) I think I'll keep the short side facing the driveway with a single, wide door, plus man door on in the front corner, Either front edge, or side edge, whichever looks better.

4) Make sure it is insulated. Try to work in a some windows, plus a couple skylights to make good use of natural light.

5) Need to consider placement of workbenches, toolbox, air-hose (ceiling-hung reel?), welder, sand blast cabinet, and shelving/cabinets. Consider where a future tire machine may fit.

That should get me a pretty good building, and a pretty good $tart.

-Dave

[GMJohnny]

Dave,

What I know about the heated floor is that you have to plan on having it in use all season
round to be effective. I toured Middlefield Farm & Garden's shop with the owner several years
ago when the new rental store in Middlefield was being constructed. The owner loved the system,
and was glad he had done it, because it was cheap to heat that way. He would start heating
the building in late September and not stop until late April. The deal there was that you maintained
the previous heat in the concrete, rather than try to heat it when it was cold. If you don't plan on
keeping the building heated all winter long, I would advise against the system, because it won't
heat like a furnace or torpedo heater would. It would take way too long to get up to temperature
to be effective. If you are going to have heat out there all the time, that's awesome. MFG's shop was
heated to almost 70 degrees. EVERYTHING in the shop was that temperature.... tractors, tools, work
benches.... Everything. It was soo cool.

Also, at work, our compressor is tied into 1" aluminum pipe that is plumbed all over the shop so air ports
are in real convenient locations. The cool thing about this, is that you get way more air reserve. It's
almost like having another tank on the compressor. The compressor, even in a very busy shop, hardly
ever comes on.

GM