1981 El Camino

Update your progress on your various car projects.

Moderators: MostMint, wxo, Fred32v, Basement Paul, ttamrettus

User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Smart Timing Light

Post by Maverick »

With all the difficulties I've been having seeing the timing marks, this morning I painted the pointer flat black to contrast with the shiny steel balancer and ordered a replacement for my 50 year old timing light.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/INO-5568 Lots of nice features and very good reviews.

That apparently offended my old one -- it quit working when I tried to use it again. :shock: Thought the NEW one was smart. :wink:

Timing was then advanced some more, no idea where it's set, but it's idling much better. It now goes into gear and handles the AC load without stalling while idling. This engine apparently needs lots of advance. Guess I should take it easy till I can measure initial plus mechanical advance.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Since I'm waiting for a timing light, I pulled the driver's door panel off yesterday to see what's causing the window to be so loose and all the rattles when the door is shut. Found 3 things: one roller is loose in the channel, rods are rattling against the door shell, and one of the two pads at the top of the window wasn't snug to the window. Ordered stuff from DixieRestorationsDepot, which was significantly less expensive than another source. Online order didn't go thru, got not record, so this is my record.


DM00109 4 78-85 Door Pull Strap Screw Cover I... $9.95 ~ $9.95
DM02331 MYLAR 78-88 2dr Die Cut Door Water Shield... $19.95 ~ $19.95
DM60253 ROUNDBEAD 78-87 Inner & Outer Door Moldings (... $79.99 ~ $79.99
DA60047 68-88 Door Bumpers (set of 4) $6.00 ~ $6.00
DM01330 68-88 Door Panel Retainer Clips (se... $5.00 ~ $5.00
DM30115 73-88 Interior Door Handle Gasket $3.75 ~ $3.75
DM30037 68-88 Manual Window Crank Spring $1.95 ~ $1.95
Sub Total: $126.59
Tax: $0.00
UPS GROUND Shipping: $15.33
Total: $141.92

The "Door Moldings" are combination chrome moldings and window wipes. They play a role in holding the window in place at the top. The pads at the top of the window will be re-adjusted after the wipes are in. Should replace the regulator roller but just didn't feel like disassembling all that. I'll split some rubber hose length-wise and stick some pieces in place with adhesive to cushion the rods where they're rattling.

Also ordered a 1980 Fisher Body manual for $9.35 shipped from Amazon. Expect it will be close enough to the '81 parts to be useful. I hope it will help with understanding of all the window adjustments.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Got the whiz-bang timing light and, for the first time, I KNOW for sure where the timing is set. You guys are probably familiar with this kind of timing light but, although I had seen one, I didn't know how they operate. You only need ONE mark: on TDC. No need to read the numbers on the balancer, which in this case is impossible at least for me. From any timing setting, the light is shined on the timing marks and the "Advance" button is pushed repeatedly until TDC on the balancer is lined up with TDC on the pointer and the degree of advance is shown on the display. 8) RPM is also shown on the display.

Previously, the distributor had been rotated to give best idle and vacuum, then retarded it bit. Initial at 675 RPM is 15* BTDC (crappy idle). With vacuum advance, and maybe some mechanical advance, idle jumps to 875 RPM at 34* BTDC. Haven't spun it up to get total but I suppose it'll be about 50*. Need to get initial plus mechanical set to 32-34 and see how that works.

I LOVE the new light!! If it lasts 50 years, like the Craftsman did, I suppose it'll be useless on all the electric cars. :(
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

15* initial plus mechanical (all in at 3000) is 39* (I thought I already posted this?!?!). 39* sounds dangerous when 32-34 is speced by Blueprint. Thing is, it would run better with more advance.

Put the tuning issues aside for a bit and worked on the driver's door. Got the new wipes installed, some split rubber tubing on the rods that were rattling, made some adjustments, installed the panel correctly with some new pegs and it's now presentable. Not perfect, but presentable. Didn't change the loose roller but the things I snugged up mitigated that issue.

Maybe the flakey voltage gauge will be next. Felt good to be finished with the door issues.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Has anyone replaced their dash lights with LEDs? They're not dimable, right? Are they too bright at night?
Maverick
User avatar
Basement Paul
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:27 pm
Location: In the dirt.

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Basement Paul »

I know in the world exists LED's that are dimmable, but relative to your application, hard to say. I just read a bunch of threads from Jeeps to S10, to Mustangs, and some say it works, some say it doesn't, and some argue that even though it's not as bright to the eye, it's not technically dimming because of the science of LEDs. Sometimes people are silly. My guess is even in it's brightest in that gauge cluster, it won't be nearly as bright as the modern vehicles and should be OK at full blast.

-BP
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Thanks, BP. They can't be TOO bad since incondescents are not easy to find. I'll give 'em a try. These blue ones should look good. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LE ... UTF8&psc=1
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

4th Gen Dash Light Improvements

Post by Maverick »

This writeup for the 4th gen Monte Carlo is mostly applicable to the 5th gen EC too. It describes the gauge cluster issues I've been working on.

http://www.montecarloss.com/Dash_Lights.html
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

According to Grumpy http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/in ... tors.1015/ the cam in the BP engine (221 Intake / 226 Exhaust duration @.050 - 110 degree lobe separation) needs 14-22* of initial timing and 26-32* with vacuum advance. Didn't know this much advance was OK. I guess the initial plus mechanical advance needs to brought back to 36* with springs and/or weights. Something more to learn about. :?
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

How can I limit mechanical advance on the HEI distributor so total doesn't go too high when initial is where the engine wants it?
Maverick
User avatar
Basement Paul
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:27 pm
Location: In the dirt.

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Basement Paul »

Get a kit like this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum- ... oCyJ3w_wcB

It has the bushings, weights, and springs that will help you dial in how fast it comes in, and how far it will go. Here's the instructions for the kit:

https://static.summitracing.com/global/ ... -g5212.pdf

-BP
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Called Blurprint and Scott, second tech guy, says the issue is NOT timing. "Something else is going on." He says that engine should idle in gear with 10* advance. He'll talk with Ken, first tech guy, and see what they can suggest.

He did mention vacuum leaks as a possible problem. I'll look for vac leaks tomorrow but I don't think that's the issue.

MSD distributors have bushings that limit the travel of the mechanical advance but Jack says the distributor does not have those bushings.
Last edited by Maverick on Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

I'm going to go right back to the beginning and check everything. Pulled the plugs to get ready to redo the TDC check. Plugs are really sooty even tho the AFR meter says 12.5-13 on idle. I also noticed the timing moves around 2-3 degrees with the somewhat rough idle. Cause or effect??? Idling at 775, I wouldn't expect the mechanical advance to be moving and the vacuum advance was disconnected. It gave a great spark when a plug wire was disconnected. :shock: The MSD hot rod HEI module was installed when the spark was moving around some.

Ordered this balancer cover https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-141-728 that will be lots easier to read. And, this timing tab https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-4593 is on the bench waiting to go on. It's 1/2" shorter so it won't cover the timing marks on the balancer like the one that came on the engine.

Got a call back from Ken at Blueprint. They're sending a replacement carb and will credit my account when this one is returned. If I want to go to a different carb, or maybe EFI, they'll refund their cost when I return this (the second) one. The can't sell me a different one because they have to stay with the standard configs. If the carb doesn't fix it, maybe I'll try to work a refund on their (supplied by Proform) distributor and get an MSD ignition with programmable advance.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

Looks like the Proform-supplied HEI distributor is hardly worth returning for a refund of Blueprint's cost. Retail is only $80-$100 so, minus their substantial discount, minus my shipping and I might keep it for parts if its to be replaced.

https://www.amazon.com/Proform-66940RC- ... istributor

TCD was RE-verified this morning. With the bolt screwed in all the way, it touches #1 piston at plus and minus 10 degrees. It touches at TDC with bolt 4 threads out.
Maverick
User avatar
Maverick
Posts: 1801
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:29 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 1981 El Camino

Post by Maverick »

The replacement carb is to arrive this evening. If it doesn't make the 383 run well with less than 18* initial timing, I'll be looking for a way to limit mechanical advance to 16-18* to get total (without vacuum advance) at 34-36*.

Total mechanical advance for the HEI is limited by the shape of the plate and weights. There are supposedly LOTS of combinations of plates and weights available (see http://chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/198509/) but no one seems to know a source for the various combinations other than scrounging used distributors.

I called MSD to see what they would recommend and was disappointed in their response: https://www.msdperformance.com/products//parts/8365 which also requires an expensive ignition box. Their programmable ignition box https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-6530/overview/ would be another expensive solution. :cry:
Maverick
Post Reply